I’m brand new to breadmaking and while waiting for my X20 to arrive worked up my first batch of real sourdough starter. I was disappointed to find the machine came with no instructions for making sourdough bread with real starter, and I see you shared this feeling. You say upfront that you made good multi-grain sourdough with this machine, so I was wondering if you could tell me how.

Best,

Devin

I have just received the X20 and I was excited. However, the two breads I have made were disappointing (granted they were from mixes). The first batch did not mix completely, the loaf was dense and lop-sided. The second mixed perfectly and the first and second rise gave promise of a great loaf of bread. Unfortunately, when this loaf baked it was flat with little rise. It too was dense and the crust rather hard. I am going to give it another shot using my own ingredients to see if it is different.

Any ideas on what can be the problem?

Linda

I have found the BBCCX20 to be a great machine (my first bread maker) however, I wonder if anyone can advise me about the following:

White loaves are great but I find they are lighter when I use rapid rise yeast and the quick cycle. Is there a reason for this?

Wheat loaves are always very dense and sometimes have an uneven top. I have tried increasing the water slightly to allow the dough to mix more easily but this caused mixed results. I have also experimented with the wheat gluten content and have found that there is very little difference in the consistency of the bread whether I use 2 or 4 tablespoons of wheat gluten. How can I get a lighter whole wheat loaf? I have tried both the rapid rise yeast and regular yeast. The whole wheat flour I use does not specifically say “bread flour” but it has a 4gr. of protein per serving. Normal flour is 2 or 3 grams per serving.

Finally, the recipes call for dried milk but don’t specify if whole, skimmed or fat free milk matters. I have been using fat free milk. Will that make a difference?

Thanks for any help.

Billie,

I have had the exact same problems with white and wheat bread, hard crust (overcooked) top not brown at all, very pale. Bread is very dry, even my old buttermilk recipe. Tried several times and am pretty disgusted. A lot of money for a machine that does not produce. This is my 4th bread machine, my first Zojirushi.

If you aren’t willing to buy a grain mill (about $175), don’t bother with whole wheat bread in any bread machine. To make good bread, you have to have good ingredients. Whole wheat flour purchased from the grocery store doesn’t fall into that category. It’s the difference between eating delicious soft cookies and dense hard-as-a-rock cookies. If you don’t want to mess with grinding wheat, stick with white bread. If you make whole wheat bread with w.w. flour from the store, it will be disgusting every time… you can count on that.

I can’t believe it! You say that most bread machines have a life expectancy of three years….My Hitachi HB-B101 was placed into service in December of 1989 and is still going! Unfortunately, the rubber seals are going bad and there are no parts available. I’d like to find a new machine that is as durable and that allows me to “experiment”.

I am trying this machine for the first time tonight. I had a bread machine while I was bringing up my kids years ago, but both my husband & I miss that wonderful smell in the house. I am 67 years old & therefore can not figure out how to use the mode that allows you to bake the bread & have it ready at a certain time. (display mode I believe?). Please help me.

Just thought I’d pass along some info for those of you who are getting very flat whole wheat loaves. You need Vital Gluten. This can be found in most stores, most likely in the all natural or health section. It comes in a box and you can add about 2T to your 2 # whole wheat recipes. Whole wheat flour lacks the gluten (protein) that white flour does. Most white flour has added gluten it in, especially bread flour, which is all purpose flour w/ proteins added. Anyway - this will make your bread rise and looke absolutely lovely! Good luck. And….for the grind your own grains person - goodness! I am a pastry chef and a purest, but time is of the essence when making your own bread for daily consumption. Blud Ofen’s reply sums my feeling up on that comment!

I just got my mother’s welbilt machine last night and made my first loaf, ever. The sweet bread recipe was very easy to follow.. and it was fun to watch it go through it’s steps (glass top..see everything very clearly). While it was tasty, the crust was way overcooked for my liking. When it was in the ‘baking’ process, i wanted to stop it and go into the cooling process but didn’t know how to do it but also afraid to “interrupt’ the automated time. Any suggestions?

Gina-
Your comment intrigued me; I also use my bread machine daily. The Sunbeams that I have owned are wearing out too quickly. How has the Zojirushi BBCC-X20 been working for you? Would you also recommend a Panasonic?
Thanks!

Can someone who owns the BBCCX20 tell me how it mixes? I have a 10+ year old Regal that still works but I am thinking of getting something newer. The paddle in the Regal leaves a large hold in the bottom of the loaf. I was wondering how the mixing paddle works in the new models.

Thanks

I own the Zojirushi BBCCX20, I don’t have problems like people have on this forum. I have had to perfect some recipes, but after some tries I have had great success. I have never seen a machine that is a durable and consistent as the Zojirushi and I have owned ALOT of them. I bought a Panasonic years ago and it didn’t last. I owned the Salton Breadman, a Regal, a Welbilt and a Sunbeam. NONE of them lasted like my Zojirushi has. I think people are just impatient and they don’t like having to try something new if a recipe doesn’t work. Every recipe works different in each machine. I have had to change my “perfect recipe” for every machine I have owned. The Zojirushi mixes wonderfully. It will still leave two holes in the bottom (because they have two paddles) but the holes are not huge. That will happen with any bread machine. I also ALWAYS use fresh ground whole wheat in my whole wheat breads and that seems to help. I hope that helped you.

I have had the BBCCX20 for about 2 years (having upgraded- I thought- from a Breadman). It recently died- one of the paddle drivers developed an oil/lubricant leak and the driver froze. While I love the horizontal loaf and feel the double blades are needed for a larger loaf, I was never particularly impressed with the quality of the bread in comparison to the more reasonably priced Breadman machines. In addition, I agree with those who find the crust pale and rock hard if not immediately stored in a plastic bag. In anycase, I am now looking for a replacement and it will not be a Zojirushi!

I am struggling with the Zojirushi and its very hard loaves of bread. I thougt my 1st machine was bad so I returned it for a second one. I follow the directions on white bread that came with the machine, and after trying 3 loaves everyone one is so hard. The top is not overcooke and looks perfect the sides are much darker (although not that bad). The problem is that the loaf is so hard and dense after just a few hours of letting it sit.

Has anyone else got around this issue? I am afraid I will have to return this, why have a bread machine that doesnt make good loaves of bread. I have had a williams sonoma model before this one and never had any problems like this.

Help

I too have the same problem with the densed and hard bread made by the Zojirushi BBCC-X20. This is my first machine and I didn’t have much experience with baking, neither. I was hoping, since I invested a lot in this machine, and followed the instructions carefully, it will do the work. The 1st Italian Herb Bread turned out just OK with the top crust under cooked and body and side crust hard. The 2nd Chocolate bread was totally unacceptable. It was not raised enough and it tasted hard and dry. I read some of the FAQ on zojirushi.com and will try to reduce the amount of the flour slightly next time. Has anyone been able to produce good bread using this machine?

Thanks to all who take the time to share info. If I wasn’t confused before….I am now. I’ll consider this a part of the research and quest for info. Just when I thought I had a machine picked out….not! I had the same thoughts about needing the ‘extra’ steps to assure a better loaf-above what the machine features provide; isn’t that why we all bought nice machines!

I have had a zojirushi for about 10 years and love it. I got cheap and bought my daughter a breadman about 8 years ago. She used it a lot and we have had to replace it every year or two. I finally gave up and bought her a Zo for Christmas in 2007. It still works great after more than a year of daily use.

I have owned the Zo for almost 3 months. I wish I never would have bought it. My 2 previous were Breadman and never had a bad loaf. With Zo I have never had a good loaf yet. All my loaves are indented in the middle, with my Breadman the loaves were very nice. Texture not bad in Zo, but I really would try to buy another brand. I thought for the price I was getting top of the line, WRONG. I contacted manufacture, but everything they told me to do still hasn’t worked.

I purchased the Zojirushi and have been very unhappy with results. Wish I had just gotten a cheap one that would wear out quicker. Loaves burn on sides, very heavy in white or wheat bread, always uneven on top when they turn out. I measure very carefully according to instructions and always make sure ingredients are fresh. About 1/4 of the time the loaf falls while baking which is totally a waste. I will admit I do not know how to experiment with this (more flour, more wheat gluten, etc.) to get it to perform better and feel they should make adjustments for that in their manual. I wore another less expensive brand out before I bought this one and every loaf was wonderful. I am probably going to just give up and give this to someone in the family and get a different one. Sometimes price does not mean quality.

The ZO-X20 is our second bread maker. We had one about 20 years ago that looked like R2-D2 from Star Wars. It never worked right. I was excited to find a bread maker that make a rectangular loaf. We made our first loaf following the recipe that came with the machine and it came out pretty good. It is alittle more dense and not at light tasting as we’d like. Has anyone tried to get a less dense loaf of white bread? The color and shape was perfect. We hope the machine will prove to work well. I would appreciate any suggestions for a less dense loaf. Thank you!

I have 3 used Zo’s that I bought at different times at 2nd hand stores (well, the last one I bought on Craigslist). I grind my own wheat (hard white winter) and bake 3 loaves at one time about every 3 weeks for my family. We live off grid (power with wind turbines, solar and generators) so I have to be frugal with our power. I have experimented over the last 2 winters with recipes and ingredients and now think I have the perfect loaf. I don’t let my machines bake my bread: purely for the lack of that much power stored in our battery banks. But it sure does save me time with the mixing and kneading. First, I want everyone to know that what I’m writing is my preference and mine only. Some might agree, some might disagree. While my machine is mixing, I’m using a rubber spatula to push the sides down and roll the dough over. Just be very aware of what your bread is doing, feeling and looking like in the first 10 minutes. I feel my bread and pinch it to see if it needs more water or flour. After many loaves, you’ll know what to look for. In the last minutes of mixing/kneading, I’ll add chopped nuts, fruit, ground flax seed. Oh, and I’ve set the machine to the dough setting (the longest one, if you have 2settings). Before the timer beeps to let me know that the dough is ready to come out of the mixing pan, I will have heated up a pizza stone on top of my stove and boiled a kettle of water. Using my old large microwave oven (that I can’t use off-grid, I’ve kept it only for my bread rising) to rise my bread, I put the pizza stone and kettle in it to get it warm. Dump the dough on a very lightly greased counter top, roll out dough with rolling pin. Roll dough up, pinch seams and ends and place in a greased, metal, long, narrow bread pan. Place pans in plastic bags (like the ones on the rolls at the vegi bins at the grocery store), blow up with air using your mouth, twist tie the end shut. Remove kettle from micro wave oven (replace with a mug of hot water) and put pans on warm pizza stone. If too hot, put oven mitts under your bread pans. Set timer for 15-20 minutes. When timer beeps: Turn oven on to 450 degrees (mine is propane gas). Set timer for another 10 - 15 minutes. If oven is heated to 450 degrees at this point and the bread has risen to about an inch over the pans, you are ready to put your loaves in the oven. REmove the platic bags. YOu can cut them off or carefully slide the loaf out. Once the bread is in the oven, turn it down to 350 -375 and set timer for 45 minutes (depending on the sizes of your loaf pans). I have 2 small pans that only take about 25 minutes to bake. Using a instant read thermometer, check your bread internally, in the middle of the loaf. When done, it should read between 190 - 200 degrees. When done,remove from oven, let loaf sit in pan for 5 minutes and then take out of pan and let cool on rack for 15 minutes or longer before slicing. I only slice one loaf and the other two go into the cold room (arctic entry way which is my walk in refrigerator in the winter). I store them in plastic bags, which I would love to find an alternative to but haven’t. When one loaf is gone, I slice another using my electric meat knife and bread slicing guide — great tools to have. We don’t have a toaster but use a cast iron skillet to brown on bread. This bread makes an awesome grilled peanut butter and jelly sandwich especially when I make a loaf with cinnamon in it ! Here’s my recipe:
1 1/3 c. water
1/2 c. oil ( I use olive oil)
1/4 c. honey (if you use the 1/2 c. measuring cup that you just used for the oil, you won’t have your honey sticking)
4 1/2 c. flour
1/3 c. powder milk
2 tsp. salt
2 Tblsp. vital wheat gluten
1/4 c. instant potatoes ( I use a fine powder that I get at Sam’s club, have never tried the flakes but don’t know why they wouldn’t work)
1 Tblsp. yeast

Hope this helps all the newbies and is too overwhelming.
For any questions: wildshannon1@yahoo.com
And while you’re at it, check out our website: wwww.power-talk.net

That recipe above makes one large loaf of bread. I cut one of my dough loaves in half to make two small loaves. If I’m making cinnamon bread, I’ll add a Tblspoon of cinnamon to the dough while it’s mixing/kneading and then sprinkle more cinnamon and raisins on the rolled out dough before I roll it up and put it in the pan to rise. *Use your rolling pin to lightly push the raisins down into the dough*
Nuts are good too… walnuts, sunflower seeds (unsalted), peanuts, pumpkin, almonds, pecans.
ground flax seed: 1 Tblspoon per loaf when mixing/kneading

I have a 4 year old V20. Do not know what the prior machines were but they wore out in 1-2 years. I make bread daily for the kids lunches. What a great aroma to awake to. I was frustrated just as some others here at first. I find the basic recipe on the side is just a guideline. I pre-measure the dry ingredients into containers. Makes it easier each night to set up for baking. I now only use olive oil. I can not attest to the bread lasting longer because it does not last more than 48 hours in our house. Being on a low sodium diet I have reduced the amount of salt. My measurements tend to be course. I measure the oil over the pan. Comes out more or less 2 tablespoons. Usually more Reduced the water and flour to make the flour go further. Size of loaf change is minimal but I can usually squeeze out an extra loaf per bag. Kids do not like wheat especially with PBJ’s. Yuck! So my wheat is a blend. 60/40 most times so the kids will eat it. All store bought high quality. For sandwiches I always use the sandwich setting. All in all it gets used for everything from a mixer to baking.

Type of flour make a huge difference. Gold Medal Bread flour is inexpensive and I always have problems with consistency. I contacted Gold Medal due to not having country of origin on their bag label. Found out it comes from all over the world. So I pay more for higher quality US flour and get consistent results and the flour goes a bit further. If I guesstimate measure with cheap flour I always get poor results. There is good quality wheat flour sold in stores no need to mill your own.

Lastly the kids followed my directions when I had heart surgery. They did not want to resort to store bought bread That attests to how easy it is to make a good loaf.

We have had our Zojirushi X20 about a month now and I have tried several recipes. We are very pleased! the only comment I have is that the top of the bread does not brown very well, but it is okay. It is definitely cooked and tastes yummy! I had an old Oster Bread Maker before that made a round loaf and it never did work right. It was also very noisy. I love that this machine is so quiet, easy to operate and the bread slides out of the pan, without the paddles…it’s great! Thank you for all of your tips and recipes. For a relatively newbie at bread making I appreciate the comments. Happy Baking!

Oh - if makes any difference I’m at about 6200 feet above see level.

Also, I am still quite new to bread making although I’ve owned a couple machines I make pretty simple multi-grain, wheat, raisin and dark rye breads. My wife is very sick and doesn’t cook all that much anymore so I’m doing my best to keep everyone fed well…the bread machine helps!

Thanks Much!

Glenn

I make wheat bread but I use less wheat flour then the recipe calls for. I use bread flour for the difference and it always takes a little more water because it is so dense. We put the Watt-A-Meter on our breadmachine and in the fast mode, 2 hours, it used .21 kws. Which is 3 cents for electricity.

I just got this new bread machine upgrading from one I’ve had for years. I wanted one with all the new bells & whistles as well. I’m a little concerned, my first loaf was the cinnamon raisin which was very good. My 2nd loaf was a basic white bread and it didn’t rise. It was also as hard as a rock, I followed the recipe exactly. I was also desperately confused when I was trying to follow the sourdough recipe in the booklet. I will publish later on that. I’ve got the following french bread recipe rising so the following recipe does work in this bread machine: Bon Appetit

1-1/2 Lb. Dough - French Bread

1 cup water
3 cups bread flour
3/4 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon active dry yeast
Yellow cornmeal
1 slightly beaten egg white
1 tablespoon water

1) add the first 4 ingredients to the machine. Select dough cycle.

2) When cycle is complete, remove dough. Punch down (on floured surface) cover and let rest for 10 minutes. Divide dough in half. On a lightly floured surface, roll each half into a 10 x 8″ rectahngle. Started from long side, roll into a spiral; seal edge. Pinch & pull ends to taper.

3) Place loaves, seams down, on a greased baking sheet sprinkled with cornmeal. Combine egg white and 1 tablespoon water; brush some on tops of loaves. Cover and let rise in a warm place for 35-45 minutes or until nearly doubled. Using a sharp knife, make 3 or 4 diagonal cuts about 1/4″ deep across the top of each loaf.

4) Bake in a 375 deg. oven for 20 minutes. Brush with remaining egg white mixture. Bake for an aditional 12-15 minutes or until until bread sounds hollow when lightly tapped. Remove from baking sheet, let cool on wire rack.

This is my first bread machine and we love it. We make a loaf of cracked wheat bread about everyother day. We’ve had the machine about 1 month and only have excellent reports. The loaf is picture perfect each time and we are a tough/picky audience. I think the issues folks are having is not with the machine, but with their recipes and ingredients - a common problem with baking. It is almost impossilbe to make 100% whole wheat bread that is any good with store bought flour unless you can shop at specialty stores. Also, measuring is key! All measurements must be exact and the temp. of your ingredients is also important. Try books like “Whole Grain Breads by Machine or Hand” - the NY Times said every recipe is a winner (note that they mix white flours in w/the wheat flours because store bought wheat is low quality).

This machine is incredibly quiet, and makes suberb bread. My only suggestion - the recipe book could be more extensive. I have used my other recipes in it and everything including the heaviest 100% whole wheat, oatmeal sesame and raisin bread have turned out perfectly!

I just returned from a trip to Europe and loved the breads with all the nuts and seeds. I have been considering purchasing a bread machine, it will be my first, and wonder which (if any) would be best for baking these kinds of breads.

Since this site effectively scared me off the Cuisanart, perhaps someone on the site can tell me if this machine makes a good low carb (truly low carb, not reduced carb) recipe, and if anyone out there has adjusted recipes for high altitude using this particular machine and what the experience was. Thanks.

My mother gave me a Zo BBCC-X20 when my other bread machine, a Welbilt, wore out. Although I experimented a lot in the Welbilt with recipes from many different books, with the Zo I decided to stick with the recipes in the manual because I didn’t want untested recipes overflowing in this expensive machine and making a big mess. The first few breads I made in the Zo did not work out but I finally discovered the right proportions and kinds of yeast to use. I only make whole wheat bread, and with the Zo recipes I put in 4-5 tsp. fresh granulated yeast (in the refrigerated section) plus 2-3 tsp. of gluten (comes in a little bag attached to the yeast - that is how it is sold here in Israel). The bread comes out perfect every time. I always substitute 1/2 c. bran for 1/2 c. of the w.w. flour, then adding the required additional 4 1/2 c. w.w.flour. I used to add some sunflower seeds but that seemed to mess up the kneading somehow - the bread came out lumpy sometimes.

I just made the chocolate cake recipe from the Zo manual and it is wonderful - great texture and not too sweet (I cut the sugar from 1 c. to 3/4 c.). It will be a regular at our house. It is so much easier to make cake in the bread machine. With five children, I am always looking for easy ways of doing things.

Several years ago I purchased my first Breadman. It was fine. Then the bucket’s ball bearings seized up and I had to purchase a new bucket ($40). Then the heating element on one side failed. So I purchased another one, used it for a little over a year, and the bucket’s ball bearings failed. Company no longer has replacement parts, so I am looking at a Zo. One of the things that I think is most important is your ingredients and yeast. I have always used King Arthur flour and SAF yeast with excellent results. The other critical factor are the recipes. I have only used 3 books - Linda Rehberg & Lois Conway’s Bread Machine Magic and More Bread Machine Magic as well as Beth Hensperger’s The Bread Lover’s Bread Machine Cookbook. From my research, most recipes prior to that were such failures that that is why so many bread machines were in thrift stores or people gave up on them. I do believe that all whole wheat breads have to contain a tablespoon or two extra gluten. So try recipes from these books and you will probably have excellent results.

The other factor when it comes to the Zo, which I found out from talking to the King Arthur baking specialists and which is NOT specified in the Zo manual is that you HAVE to have both paddles pointing in the same direction when you start out. Both east-west or north-south or whichever, but both aligned in the same direction.

So now I am facing replacing the Breadman ASAP, and will try the Zo. I will use my regular recipes and see how they come out, then tweak a bit if necessary.

To recap on the critical points:
Recipes - too many out there just don’t work out well. The ones in the books I’ve mentioned and those on the King Arthur site do.
Ingredients - Grinding your own is ideal, yes, but otherwise use King Arthur Flour and SAF yeast.
Paddle Alignment - on the Zo, align them the same way.